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[FJL]

And one for Molly

[JoseSPiano]

OH!

While I was walking from Lincoln Center down to Columbus Circle, I stopped into Starbucks for a post-Mozart-opera mocha.  When I went to pick my drink, the barista asked if I was a pianist.  Turns out she was an actress, and she remembered that I had played for her a few times over the past few years.  She even knew my name.  -Good for her!  

-And I also happened to run into Matt Bogart too - who's looking as hunky as ever.  He's about to go into Jersey Boys, and was coming back from watching tonight's performance.  We had a nice catch-up in the rain, and I guess I'm going to see Jersey Boys again.  

[JoseSPiano]

PAGE 10 MATT BOGART DANCE!!!

[bk]

Finished watching the evening's motion picture.  It was 102 degrees here today.  Autumn indeed.

[DERBRUCER]

.............by an economically unsophisticated President.

I hardly think holding an MBA from Harvard Business School qualifies as "economically unsophistacated".

der Brucer

[DERBRUCER]

Our ABC affiliate is having all sorts of technical problems, but only during Ugly Betty. The commercials seem to have no problem.  ARG<>

It might have been Network - we were having intermediate drop outs here as well.

der Brucer

[George]

I enjoyed UGLY BETTY's season premiere very much. I was dreading the thought of enduring Daniel's little jerky kid for the season, but looks like that's going to be toned down. Lindsay Lohan isn't much of an actress.

AARRGGHH!!  I got home and my DVR had the "your DVR is 100% filled...you have to delete something" message. I got home halfway through the episode and fortunately there was 15 minutes in the buffer, so I only missed the first 15 minutes.  I'll watch the beginning once it's available on-line.

[Ron Pulliam]

Let me know if that works.  It's what I do, but I don't know if it makes a difference

It all worked out perfectly.  All four shows recorded while I watched "Survivor" -- which was SPEC-TAC-U-LAR in Hi-Def!

[bk]

I gotta tell you.

[DERBRUCER]

.. for me, it's like giving 700 billion dollars to people who lose their shirts in Vegas...

The proposed deal does not "give" money to anybody - the funds will be used to buy mortgage-based securities at a discount price; anyway you cut it, that financial paper has value - it contains the deeds of real estate all over country. Even if you presumed that the properties were worth only one half of their mortgage value, the treasury would ultimate regain over one half if its investment. Indeed, if the government held-on to the paper, and if over time the market rebounded, the government could even make a profit!

der Brucer

[Ron Pulliam]

I hardly think holding an MBA from Harvard Business School qualifies as "economically unsophistacated".

der Brucer

The name Bush and oil money buys many things.

And the prez ain't exactly lit any fires up with his intellect in any situation for seven years.

[Ron Pulliam]

The proposed deal does not "give" money to anybody - the funds will be used to buy mortgage-based securities at a discount price; anyway you cut it, that financial paper has value - it contains the deeds of real estate all over country. Even if you presumed that the properties were worth only one half of their mortgage value, the treasury would ultimate regain over one half if its investment. Indeed, if the government held-on to the paper, and if over time the market rebounded, the government could even make a profit!

der Brucer

Or go bankrupt...and our savings with it.

It's a heinous deal...hinky in the extreme.  And it DOES bail folks out....the government will have to figure out HOW to get its money back if the economy doesn't improve drastically/dramatically.  All folks are demanding is that there will be a PROMISE of ensuring folks PAY their debts that won't be wriggled out of.

[DERBRUCER]

The stupidity and volatility of these Wall Street manipulators should get what they deserve.  They are the ones who have caused a major portion of this.

The source of the problem was overerly agressive borrowing by unqalified home buyers - Wall Street was not involved; blame the naive buyers and the overly optomistic banks/mortgage companies. Second level blame goes to the financial institutions (mainly Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) who then purchased those mortgages, bundled them into complex financial packages and peddled them to major investment houses who later sold them to Pension Plans, Mutual Funds, and Insurance Companies - and it is these folks who are holding most of the bag today.

der Brucer

[DERBRUCER]

All folks are demanding is that there will be a PROMISE of ensuring folks PAY their debts that won't be wriggled out of.

Should the deal proceed, the Government could first un-wind the fiscal instruments and sort out the mortgages into categories - still "working", in danger of default, and in-default. The working mortgages would continue to generate, by repayment with interest, a revenue stream for the government. The "In Danger of Default" mortgages could be re-negotiated to give current owners terms that fit their means - lower interest rates and shared future equity would work magic.  The "in-default" properties couls be reclaimed and held for resale at fair market prices (thus avoiding distress sales that lower the entire market). However, for this scheme to be successful, we need a new agency under strict General Acounting Office/Congressional oversight.

der Brucer

[Ron Pulliam]

The source of the problem was overerly agressive borrowing by unqalified home buyers - Wall Street was not involved; blame the naive buyers and the overly optomistic banks/mortgage companies. Second level blame goes to the financial institutions (mainly Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) who then purchased those mortgages, bundled them into complex financial packages and peddled them to major investment houses who later sold them to Pension Plans, Mutual Funds, and Insurance Companies - and it is these folks who are holding most of the bag today.

der Brucer

Wall Street is inextricably linked to everything inasmuch as it's the stock failures of those institutions that  the "bailout" will help salvage.  The daily trading here and around the world is as much the heart of the "financial community" as any individual company.  When Wall Street crashes, the economy goes with it.   And ask yourself why these institutions are in trouble now?  They were riding a wave of inflated stocks that were soaring with mortgage loans, etc., etc., that, when markers began to be called in, the consumers -- the uneducated masses living head and shoulders above their income means -- could not pay.  Panic ensued and here we are.  Yes, "institutions" failed due to poor management.  But do not for one minute think Wall Street is an innocent bystander.  This bailout will most definitely have an impact on trading and the Dow Jones.

Whoever it was who first decided to sell the idea that the housing market was vastly undervalued and then saw it become horrifically overvalued is, ultimately, the one to blame.  There are basic levels of blame and there are complex levels of blame.  Brokers, mortgage companies/lenders, consumers and stock traders are ALL IN IT together.

And of course, those of us who sit by and watch are the ones who will pay.

[bk]

Wall Street is inextricably linked to everything inasmuch as it's the stock failures of those institutions that  the "bailout" will help salvage.  The daily trading here and around the world is as much the heart of the "financial community" as any individual company.  When Wall Street crashes, the economy goes with it.   And ask yourself why these institutions are in trouble now?  They were riding a wave of inflated stocks that were soaring with mortgage loans, etc., etc., that, when markers began to be called in, the consumers -- the uneducated masses living head and shoulders above their income means -- could not pay.  Panic ensued and here we are.  Yes, "institutions" failed due to poor management.  But do not for one minute think Wall Street is an innocent bystander.  This bailout will most definitely have an impact on trading and the Dow Jones.

Whoever it was who first decided to sell the idea that the housing market was vastly undervalued and then saw it become horrifically overvalued is, ultimately, the one to blame.  There are basic levels of blame and there are complex levels of blame.  Brokers, mortgage companies/lenders, consumers and stock traders are ALL IN IT together.

And of course, those of us who sit by and watch are the ones who will pay.

That's what I was trying to say, but you said it better.  Anyone who thinks Wall Street has nothing to do with this just doesn't want to see what's going on.  And, as always, it's the rich who will benefit from this - the players, the gamblers, who know what the risks of the market are but who just keep getting richer and richer because of things like this - the rich speculators and manipulators never pay the piper - it's the not rich who do.

[DERBRUCER]

Anyone who thinks Wall Street has nothing to do with this just doesn't want to see what's going on.

I never said it didn't - I said that Wall Street was not involved at the "first instance" - the over-extension of credit to individual home buyers.

Yes, the rich will get richer - as they have since the heydays of Babylon.

[DERBRUCER]

Whoever it was who first decided to sell the idea that the housing market was vastly undervalued and then saw it become horrifically overvalued is, ultimately, the one to blame.

Well, the Grandlads' day-care provider is a fine example. She and her husband buy a house they can ill afford, banking on the assurances of the local broker that increased values will let them refinance later. Sure enough, values went up, they got a rediculous re-appraisal, borrowed more and went on a luxury spending spree. Thay have seven kids and not one cent put away for college - "the government will pay for it". She uses WIC, gets Food Stamps and spends money on tanning salon appointments. Her major souce of income is a big Social Security Survior's Benefit check she gets for a son from a previous marriage. They kid will soon reach 18 and the money will stop. Not one thin dime of the many thousands of dollars he received were placed in a savings account. She and her husband have never felt any obligation to consider there ability to provide before procreating - Dad thinks more kids make him seem manly.

der Brucer